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hi i just did an interview with farouja

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at shattered reality podcast and she was

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great she

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is great and was great to do this

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interview with me because

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i really wanted to get her views on

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this evil stuff i've been looking into

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so she doesn't have a youtube channel so

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i'm posting it here

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but you can also find this on her

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shattered reality podcast

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here goes and how about this how about

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this hair i'm going to share the screen

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for a minute because i wanted to

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something here i was looking

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for stuff on ferusha

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and i found this you're so big time this

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is probably

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nothing to you but look at this

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shelton and jimmy fallon from two years

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ago

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i did um the tonight show with jimmy

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fallon who's got to be

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the most lovely person imaginable

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you know that's nice of you to say

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because i'm glad to hear you say that

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because he seems like

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you hear a lot of stuff you know about

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everybody but he seems nice but that was

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so

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he's really talented he really deserves

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where he's gotten he is fairly local

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he comes from upstate new york people i

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know know people in his family

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um he's just a very very

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lovely genuine person and he's not

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gotten where he's gotten because of

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any sort of nepotism he is a true talent

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and i can't praise him enough in terms

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of that he's really a true talent

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that's awesome you know and one other

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thing and this is great because i can

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include this in on on my portion

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of the feed and that you don't

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necessarily have to do it on

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on yours but i honestly

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had a question about your show

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because i love your show and

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i stopped listening to it because it

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wasn't coming through my

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feed anymore and it kind of got cut off

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and now it's rebooted i don't even know

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if it's rebooted but i missed a lot of

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these later shows i'm going through them

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really fast

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but you have just some terrific shows

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and

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i guess the silver lining for me is

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there's a bunch of them that i

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haven't listened to but what's going on

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with shattered reality

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well shattered reality has been

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um around for about four years almost

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five years coming up

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and um we have temporarily i hope

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lost kate valentine uh due to

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uh you know personal matters that she's

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going through

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and uh we respect that and welcome her

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back

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hope is soon

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and who who is kate who is kate

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valentine

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and she had a show called the kate

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valentine ufo show

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she also had a science related show uh

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the name of which

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uh you know parasites kind of stuff that

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you do too and i and we do together uh

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kate and i

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um but there was two separate shows

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and she had she's a ufo experiencer

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and she is more of a nuts and bolts

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person than i am but we have been able

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to

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uh meld our ideas and

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kind of bounce off one another when she

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was available

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but right now it's only me and

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i am a slow but deep

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thinker alex so sometimes it takes me a

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few seconds

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to get myself about slow i think you are

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a deep thinker

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i should uh introduce you a little bit

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for the purposes of my show

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okay absolutely so

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alex sicaris is a successful

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entrepreneur who now hosts a very

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popular podcast

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called skeptical much of which is

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concentrated on consciousness

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um and in addition i want to say that he

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has

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written why science is wrong about

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almost everything

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and he's now putting the final touches

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on why evil matters

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how science and religion fumbled

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a big one he is from chicago illinois

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he has an mba from western illinois

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university

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arizona so that's alex

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and i would start my question of alex

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with a very softball

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question which is um is there a reason

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why both of your books start with

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why i mean is that a really good

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marketing technique or is it just

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happened that way

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well i i don't know maybe i think i kind

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of got it stuck in my head or something

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i

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books about

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why why why why no i i don't really see

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that and and you know this uh

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i never really even thought about doing

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the second book but you know we should

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alert people here

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that you were so nice to do this

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interview because ferocia i reached out

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to you and i said i'm working on this

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project why evil matters and

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i really think you have something

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unique to offer on this topic

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and that's why i wanted to make it this

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dialogue and you were nice enough to

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kind of break with your format and say

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yeah we could just kind of have this

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conversation about it

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because i think it's exciting to me it's

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exciting you know

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something different exciting to me you

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know i've listened to so many of your so

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many of your interviews

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and i've thought wow you know i'd like

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to hear more about

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ferusha and you know the guests are

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great you have top-notch guests

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but oftentimes i'd like to hear more

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about your experiences

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and what you've done and you are

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you know highly acclaimed as a psychic

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and you've moved in some

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amazing circles in new york and

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i i don't think that that doesn't seem

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to have gotten to

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your head in terms of you're still out

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there in the trenches

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exploring you know doing shows on what's

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the latest latest ufo research what's

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the latest near-death experience

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research

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and i think that's really cool because

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you're not like putting on this

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you know these errors of i'm a psychic

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psychic you know i think that's terrific

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i don't do that

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for this reason well i'm truly

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interested in the research um

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and there was a woman who was a friend

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of mine and who i still hold dear on a

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certain level

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and at one point she's well known she

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hangs around in

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very flashy circles she was my client

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and uh she said to me ferusha who do you

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want to meet

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some famous person and i said no i

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really want to meet um i want to meet

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like who do i want to meet

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russell targ i want to meet russell hart

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what was that and other people you know

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other people

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uh like richard smalley and people like

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that i

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wanted to meet those people she didn't

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know them

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and that started uh something going in

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my mind and i said if these people

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aren't famous to the average new yorker

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and then they're well known in their own

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fields absolutely

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then i can meet them too and so i

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decided to just study up join the

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society for scientific exploration

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join irva because i've done quite a bit

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of remote viewing through the monroe

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institute and the omega institute

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and i just decided to do that and i

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started writing blogs about it

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and then podcasting happened and it was

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really

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lot of these people

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but unlike other psychics that i know

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i don't really make any claims

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i've been psychic on some level since

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childhood

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or intuitive let's just say intuitive

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because psychic has

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all kinds of strings attached to it

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and i have to say i don't know where it

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comes from

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so many psychics say well i get my

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visions from the mother mary

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or i get my visions from nostradamus or

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whomever

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and i don't do that because i can safely

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and happily say i don't know but if i

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know

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10 more about your life than you do

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then i'm helpful to you and that's all

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that's the that's my major claim now on

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my website it says about me visiting

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all these places around the world of

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energy and that is true

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i did visit lots of places and i hope to

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again but we don't know in this time

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frame whether we'll get

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a chance to go back to the crop circles

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in england or anything like that

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oh they'll they'll they'll decide this

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is over in a little while and then

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eventually it'll have to get back to

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normal they don't want to play this game

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for too long but

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they're certainly playing it pretty damn

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hard right now but

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i don't want to talk about all that you

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know you know what i think is

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is kind of interesting also see there's

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so much embedded in that story that

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maybe you take for granted

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and that i love how humble you are about

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these psychic gifts and i think we all

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appreciate on

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some level that we all have this ability

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or these various abilities

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and that some people have them more but

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i think

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you know for you to do the jimmy fallon

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show

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and you know to go on late night and do

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the thing with blake and jimmy

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and to few people would number one

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have the presence the ability to just

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hold that

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place you know which is pretty

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remarkable but then secondly

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to have it not go to their head you know

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i mean you're you you do seem grounded

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in a way

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and i wonder how that what what that

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what that is in your background because

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i know a lot of your background

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you've always had this connection in

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your family right to

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these kind of extended things so you

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yeah

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how are you what is that world view i

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mean you kind of alluded to it in

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general terms there but what is your

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world view about how this stuff

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does work um my view

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is that i don't exactly know

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and what i wanted to say to you

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in terms of some of that is that

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when i say i don't believe something it

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also doesn't mean

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i i might believe something

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i don't believe or not believe something

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that's what i'm trying to get out here

283
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:34,240
um i have my door open like

284
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:38,640
when somebody i'm gonna use uh somebody

285
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:41,040
that you know of gary schwartz soul

286
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:42,000
phone that whole

287
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:44,480
deal exactly exactly right you know i've

288
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:46,640
met gary schwartz at uh

289
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,839
at the sse up in new haven and seemed

290
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:51,440
like a heck of a nice guy

291
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:54,079
and i really liked him i haven't met his

292
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:54,880
partner

293
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:58,480
who's been on uh on buddha at the gas

294
00:12:03,670 --> 00:11:59,839
pump which i

295
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:03,680
i got to through you so i love that you

296
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:06,399
i listened to your shows a lot of them

297
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,760
and now i listen to

298
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:10,240
a back app too so that's really great i

299
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:11,519
wouldn't have found out about that

300
00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:12,399
except for you

301
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:14,800
but getting back to gary schwartz soul

302
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:15,600
phone

303
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:19,120
okay do i believe it

304
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:22,800
no do i not believe it no

305
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:25,920
my jury is still out and

306
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:29,600
um so that's the point of view that i

307
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:32,720
come to a lot of this psychic stuff

308
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:36,560
about i don't believe or disbelieve

309
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,160
something is going on and my baby

310
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,720
i mean i think because you understand

311
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:44,480
the science and you've really

312
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,639
delved into it with all these a lot of

313
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,079
same great people that

314
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:51,040
we both respect so much i think i

315
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:52,639
understand what you're saying but i

316
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:54,639
don't want to misinterpret you

317
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:58,240
because like my take on uh gary schwartz

318
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,639
is work and again have a lot of respect

319
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,160
for the guy

320
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:04,320
what he's gone through he's stayed after

321
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:05,440
it he has

322
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,800
this super high academic profile

323
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,560
and he's just willing to put that on the

324
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,240
line and go in places

325
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:14,639
after death communication is not going

326
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:16,800
to win you brownie points

327
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:19,680
within academia and he's pushed and he

328
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:20,959
continues to push and

329
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:24,079
just for folks who don't know the soul

330
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:27,040
phone is an extension of what gary's

331
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,639
been working on for a long time about

332
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:30,079
after death communication

333
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,519
and he's just taking it one step further

334
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:34,000
he said well okay i tell you what i can

335
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:37,600
photon beams are doable now i mean i

336
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:38,720
don't know what you have to spend but

337
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:40,240
it's not in the hundreds of thousands of

338
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:41,760
dollars you can set up a little

339
00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:45,120
photon beam in your lab and he said why

340
00:13:48,509 --> 00:13:47,360
don't we set up a photon beam and see if

341
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:48,519
this

342
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:52,000
hypothesized disincarnated spirit

343
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,000
can adjust move affect the photon beam

344
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:57,920
when we ask questions

345
00:14:02,310 --> 00:14:00,240
so we'll go to the extended realm the

346
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:02,320
dead and we'll say aunt

347
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,760
mary is it you and then mary can

348
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:08,160
move the soul move the photon beam or

349
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:10,720
not based on these yes no questions

350
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,480
and they claim and we don't have any

351
00:14:17,790 --> 00:14:15,120
reason to do not to doubt this claim

352
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,800
that they've compiled amaze

353
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:19,440
statistically just

354
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,480
phenomenal data that this is true

355
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:25,199
because true in the sense that they

356
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:26,160
validate

357
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:29,600
what they're getting back being blinded

358
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:30,320
from it

359
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:32,720
with a sitter that would then say yes

360
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:33,519
you know

361
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:37,120
whatever kind of questions you would

362
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,800
validate when that we've seen that after

363
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:40,560
death communication research

364
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:42,560
and it is very doable you know it's not

365
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,320
super tricky scientifically

366
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:46,480
the photon beam is is interesting so

367
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:48,000
here's here's what i think we're talking

368
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,959
about i want to make sure we're talking

369
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:50,000
about the same thing

370
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:53,279
when you say when you say you don't

371
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:54,320
believe

372
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,000
i've always

373
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,959
said about that which again could fall

374
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:02,399
into your category but i want to make

375
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,320
sure i'm not making assumptions

376
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:06,800
as i say it just sounds a little bit too

377
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:07,839
much like you know

378
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,160
god needs our help you know like god's

379
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,160
up there he wants to talk to you

380
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:14,560
but until he can get a good soul phone

381
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:16,000
you know he just can't

382
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,160
he just can't make the connection i go i

383
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:19,920
i can't believe that's how it

384
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,079
really works so i don't question your

385
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:24,320
data i just question maybe

386
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:25,760
some of the assumptions you're making

387
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:28,000
but then again i'm glad you're out there

388
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:31,600
exploring it absolutely absolutely um

389
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,839
i agree a lot with what you say

390
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:35,680
basically i don't disagree with

391
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,079
what you say but i think i'm coming at

392
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:40,320
it from a different point of view i mean

393
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,759
another part of it

394
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,360
and the part of it that i think i'm

395
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:44,959
coming at from

396
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,480
is that there are absolutely i

397
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:50,399
feel like you know consciousness is

398
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:51,759
fundamental as

399
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:55,759
uh as as many of the uh physicists have

400
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:56,639
said

401
00:16:02,710 --> 00:15:59,759
and not only that but um

402
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,720
you know i think that um we are more

403
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:04,320
than our physical body

404
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,399
like robert monroe said these are kind

405
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:08,079
of basic things that

406
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:11,440
are my foundation uh of things that i

407
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:12,480
can say i

408
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,120
quote unquote believe then other things

409
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:17,440
come into the area of i think

410
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,480
this could be the way now the other

411
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:22,639
possibility with all of these

412
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:26,399
after death communications is that

413
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:28,959
there are other beings we could be

414
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:30,880
you're sitting in your beautiful

415
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:33,360
skeptical lounge with the paintings

416
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:34,560
behind you which i

417
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:36,399
love to ask you about we have to go back

418
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,839
to that at another point in the

419
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:39,120
interview

420
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,240
but uh we're sitting in our living rooms

421
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:43,920
perhaps i'm in mine

422
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:47,920
and there could be a soup

423
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:51,920
of thousands if not millions of beings

424
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,440
circulating around us

425
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,839
they may not be in the same time space

426
00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:57,680
continuum they could be on another

427
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,120
vibrational level

428
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:01,519
i'm talking science here and and i don't

429
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,160
mean

430
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:04,799
strict science that it's they're really

431
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:05,280
on

432
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:09,120
that i have

433
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:12,880
no clue but what if

434
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,319
these are just disincarnate entities

435
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:19,360
some of which could be tulpas some of

436
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:19,760
which

437
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:23,600
cause

438
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,959
ufo sightings for instance maybe

439
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:29,039
but then there are physical traces oh my

440
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:30,960
god what do we do with that you know

441
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:34,080
but that's a whole other conversation

442
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:37,520
but with people channeling the dead

443
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:41,280
are you really speaking to aunt mary

444
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:44,559
or perhaps there is

445
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:47,440
somebody playing with you a little bit

446
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:48,000
some

447
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:55,520
whether it be an agricore or a tulpa

448
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,120
or something entirely separate from you

449
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,440
and which brings me to something i was

450
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,280
going to read for you and i hope you'll

451
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:05,280
give me a second to read this

452
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:09,280
for you because it's from a famous

453
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:12,960
greek thinker named pythagoras

454
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,640
and it says as long as man continues to

455
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,240
be the ruthless

456
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:21,280
destroyer of lower living beings

457
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:24,720
he will never know health or peace

458
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:28,960
for as long as men massacre animals

459
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:32,559
they will kill each other indeed

460
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:36,240
he who sows the seed of murder and pain

461
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:40,160
cannot reap joy and love

462
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:43,120
and so that brings me into another part

463
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:44,000
about

464
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:51,520
sure that human beings and i

465
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:55,120
admit to be one slightly regretfully

466
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:01,350
human beings may not be the top of the

467
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,480
food chain

468
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:05,600
and perhaps we shouldn't disregard the

469
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:06,880
consciousness

470
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:10,480
of other things like trees and

471
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,280
like um animals of all sorts and even

472
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:17,679
and this is taking it a little far but

473
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:18,880
not so much

474
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:22,320
rocks the sun could be alive i mean

475
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,919
we both had on um oh oh my gosh my mind

476
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,200
is failing me now

477
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:29,919
we both had on the famous uh gentlemen

478
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:30,720
for rupert's

479
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:32,559
rupert sheldrake we both have

480
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:34,480
interviewed rupert children

481
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:37,200
and he puts up a very good argument for

482
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:38,000
the sun being

483
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:40,960
alive um and i don't you know anybody

484
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:42,799
who wants to refer to that they could go

485
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:45,440
to either remote podcast or his work

486
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,559
and they would find that i'm sure so

487
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,799
you actually had a better dialogue with

488
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,880
him on on that topic because i wasn't

489
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:54,960
aware of that until i heard it on your

490
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:55,600
show

491
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:57,200
i i guess i had run across it but i

492
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:58,640
always kind of skipped over it

493
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:01,200
and you brought that out i think really

494
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:02,640
nicely

495
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,200
i had the great pleasure of meeting him

496
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,360
in manhattan

497
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,840
for a lovely dinner which uh a

498
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,280
benefactor of mine

499
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:13,919
helped me out with in fact the same lady

500
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,850
who said who do you want to meet

501
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:17,280
[Laughter]

502
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,789
she managed to do that for me which is

503
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,480
marvelous i can't thank her enough if

504
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,000
she ever listens to this

505
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:30,480
which i don't think so but i do thank

506
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,840
her

507
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:34,240
well i think i think sheldrick is

508
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:35,200
terrific

509
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:38,320
and i think you know i met him

510
00:20:44,149 --> 00:20:41,440
uh i did meet him in in person at uh

511
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:44,159
at eslan he was up there doing a

512
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:45,440
presentation and i

513
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:47,679
managed to get up there and meet him but

514
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:49,200
before that you know i just kind of

515
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,559
contacted him

516
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:52,080
more or less out of the blue and i

517
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,159
always remember how

518
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:56,880
kind of welcoming he was how open he was

519
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:57,280
and

520
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,840
i think that that to me really speaks to

521
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:03,520
so many times so many of the people that

522
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,240
we find

523
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:06,159
in this community who these frontier

524
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:07,840
scientists

525
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:09,919
they're not all super open but so many

526
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,760
of them are just

527
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:13,919
seem to be able to have that sense of

528
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:16,480
people who are genuinely

529
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:18,559
trying to pursue this path and they seem

530
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,600
to be willing to

531
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:21,760
kind of help along that that way so i

532
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:23,360
thought he was great same with dean

533
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:24,159
rayden two

534
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:27,440
you know giants in this field

535
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:31,600
who are just really naturally normally

536
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:34,799
good human beings you know you said so

537
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,039
much there

538
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:39,360
what's that i've met dean but i haven't

539
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:40,640
had him on the show i think he's

540
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,640
wonderful

541
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:44,559
yeah you should definitely you should

542
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,720
definitely oh my gosh and i didn't

543
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:48,320
realize that i kind of assumed that you

544
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:49,200
did because

545
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:52,080
especially the the spirit work that he's

546
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,679
doing and trying to bring that to the

547
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,120
lab right now

548
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:58,000
would be that would be a natural so yeah

549
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:58,880
i agree

550
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:01,679
if if you want any help if if you have

551
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:02,320
any problem

552
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:03,600
making that connection please let me

553
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:05,120
know and i'll try and help the best i

554
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:05,679
can

555
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:08,159
so you said so much there i think i

556
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:09,520
think your answer was

557
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:14,000
actually incredibly important to

558
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:16,559
that whole line of inquiry with uh with

559
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,000
the soul phone thing

560
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:21,280
and where you took it was just that

561
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,280
something that i think we all

562
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,200
intuitively kind of know but

563
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,440
i want to grapple with because it's so

564
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:29,360
hard is that

565
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,840
the complexity of this extended

566
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,840
consciousness realm whatever that means

567
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:35,120
whatever that is

568
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:38,799
is undoubtedly so complex

569
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:42,080
that it is really beyond our

570
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:44,480
our ability to fully grasp it and i

571
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:45,760
always say this but you know

572
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,960
isn't that what we hear from people who

573
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:50,799
enter fully enter that realm like

574
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,880
through an after death experience

575
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,559
your death experience those kind of

576
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,080
things they come back and

577
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,960
you know routinely they'll say i knew

578
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:00,159
everything

579
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:02,640
i could no sooner bring a question to my

580
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:04,080
consciousness than it was

581
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,120
answered for me but gosh darn it i can't

582
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,520
remember it now i can't like i can't

583
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:10,720
bring it down to

584
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:14,080
this domain and and to me that's what

585
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,840
you were capturing

586
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:17,520
beautifully with that answer which is

587
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:19,600
like hey it could be

588
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,400
any number of different things that we

589
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:24,799
kind of think we know something about

590
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,440
and each one would shade it very

591
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:29,280
differently so when we jump in there

592
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:29,919
with

593
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,400
a kind of a firm grasp that oh this is

594
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:34,480
what it must be you must be talking to

595
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,600
aunt mary

596
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,760
we really leave ourselves open for a lot

597
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:39,520
of

598
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:42,400
you know potential uh confusion creating

599
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,919
more confusion for ourselves and other

600
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:45,279
people

601
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,960
it would seem to me from everything that

602
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:50,320
i've cleaned

603
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:54,000
um that maybe that these entities that

604
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:54,480
do

605
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,039
seem to exist come in a variety of forms

606
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:01,919
in terms of some or for us some are

607
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:02,960
against us

608
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,840
and some of us some of them are just

609
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:07,200
playing with us

610
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:10,880
like uh the trickster the joker um

611
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:13,200
thank you george hansen who's a great

612
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:14,640
guy

613
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:18,240
have you george hansen no and we can

614
00:24:22,230 --> 00:24:20,240
have a talk about george hansen i don't

615
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:22,240
know i love the idea

616
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:24,799
i love the idea give me trickster give

617
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:27,360
me the idea

618
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:28,960
let's leave behind some of his

619
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:30,400
interpretations and some of the ways

620
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,679
that he goes with it and

621
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:33,840
everything becomes a trickster and you

622
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,360
know and then he sees it from a social

623
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,440
political standpoint it's like

624
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:39,440
he's very private i would say he's a

625
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:40,799
private gentleman

626
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:44,320
and um i don't think that has anything

627
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:45,600
to do with it i think he's

628
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:48,400
he's i think he's stretching the

629
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:49,840
trickster thing a little bit

630
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,120
yeah anyway anyway that's a little

631
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:54,880
skeptical comment there i don't know

632
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:57,840
great guy no he's added hey another guy

633
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,159
completely gotta respect the heck

634
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:02,799
out of how he's changed the dialogue i

635
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,480
mean trickster

636
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:07,200
is is a cornerstone to all this that we

637
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:08,960
didn't realize before and we all

638
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:11,520
have to acknowledge that's in play here

639
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,400
so

640
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:14,640
no i don't need to run him down he he

641
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:16,559
did a great thing there

642
00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:21,039
in general and um i would say that

643
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:22,960
the thought about the trickster if you

644
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,080
think about it the

645
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:26,960
concept of the trickster would be that

646
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:29,039
type of

647
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:33,039
entity which is just playing with us

648
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:35,360
as opposed to the one which which is us

649
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:37,120
well or wishes us harm

650
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:40,159
or is trying to bring us down yeah but

651
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:40,400
see

652
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,960
like if he said it within the context of

653
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:47,039
what you were saying it would actually

654
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:50,320
i i could buy into it more if he said

655
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:52,400
look i don't know what the heck's going

656
00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:54,159
out there in this extended realm

657
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:56,520
but among all the different

658
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:58,559
classifications we could make there

659
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:00,559
seems to be this element of it

660
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,159
that doesn't doesn't neatly fit into

661
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:06,720
a benevolent angel kind of figure and

662
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:07,279
doesn't

663
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:09,679
fit into this demonic pull you into the

664
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:10,720
darkness figure

665
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:12,640
there seems to be this element of it

666
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:13,840
that is

667
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:16,480
kind of playful kind of you know what we

668
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:18,159
would see in this realm of

669
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,279
kind of being the trickster and that

670
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:23,679
meme seems to pop up over and over again

671
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,600
if you just said that and left it at

672
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:27,679
that i'd be like wow that's a great

673
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:28,320
insight

674
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:30,960
but when you start seeing the trickster

675
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:31,520
in

676
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,760
our culture and you know the trickster

677
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:39,440
culture and we're moving into this

678
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:42,960
age of it's like it's it's lost now now

679
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,960
it's like you know trying to

680
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:46,320
try to pin it down too much you're

681
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:48,880
trying to use it over use it but i

682
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,240
there i go see i'm gonna just

683
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:54,400
beat up the guy for no reason you know

684
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,520
good great guys

685
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:57,039
hey you know what let me let me return

686
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,320
to another point you made because i want

687
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:00,880
to emphasize this as well and then

688
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,880
then we can talk about something else

689
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,080
but it's

690
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:06,960
it's so obvious on one hand and on the

691
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:07,840
other hand

692
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:10,400
we never talk about this like you extend

693
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:11,120
it just

694
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:13,120
extend it to the animal domain you know

695
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,400
like we talked about rupert

696
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,919
rupert and his dogs that know when their

697
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,760
owners were coming home and cats

698
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:19,440
right he said cats too he said i never

699
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:21,679
talk about cats because

700
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:23,520
you know i'm stuck on the dog thing and

701
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,799
that's the title of the book and all

702
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:26,480
this but i got a ton of cats

703
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:29,120
reports too you know so you know or then

704
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,640
you go into the ocean and these people

705
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:31,919
have these amazing experiences with

706
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:34,000
dolphins with whales with sharks you

707
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,320
know

708
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:37,279
and they're clearly the data is

709
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,440
overwhelming that there's

710
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:41,840
some kind of relationship that they have

711
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:43,039
with

712
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,159
consciousness the large and larger sense

713
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:49,360
that we don't have any clue of and we're

714
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:51,039
kind of tapped like you said

715
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:52,720
we're kind of tapping into their

716
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:55,360
abilities we're tapping into that

717
00:28:02,149 --> 00:27:58,720
cat that goes sits on the on the

718
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,159
lap of these people who are dying

719
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:05,120
in you know uh retirement homes and the

720
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:05,600
cat

721
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:09,679
knows i remember that in boston right

722
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:12,240
tell us tell the story well there was a

723
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:13,120
cat

724
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,399
um at a hospital in boston and the

725
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,120
uh people who worked at the hospital uh

726
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:21,360
i he the cat was kind of in the hospice

727
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:23,600
ward if i'm not mistaken i could be off

728
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:24,880
on this a little bit

729
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,919
but um and the cat would go into the

730
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:29,919
room of the person who was going to die

731
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,720
next

732
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:33,279
the catchers simply knew it so the the

733
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:34,720
entire staff

734
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:37,919
got with the program that the cat knew

735
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,279
who was going to die

736
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:42,000
now how did the cat know that um and

737
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:43,520
then you get it that gets into the whole

738
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,799
death doula thing

739
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:47,520
i don't i don't know if uh you know

740
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,120
you've but

741
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:51,919
routinely now that's a service that a

742
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,520
lot of hospice facilities

743
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,840
provide and that is the death tool and

744
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:57,520
that is someone to go

745
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,399
and be with the person as they're

746
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:02,240
transitioning because sometimes you know

747
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:03,919
it's sad but some people don't have

748
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:06,080
anyone in their family to be there

749
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,679
and they're they're all in their room

750
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,399
all alone and sometimes they feel

751
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,640
all the we can only imagine what you

752
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:14,399
feel when you know no matter who you

753
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:14,880
think you

754
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,080
are when you actually enter enter that

755
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:20,480
zone of crossing over it's got

756
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,960
and so people volunteer to go and just

757
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:25,120
sit and be present and sometimes those

758
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:26,240
people

759
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:29,279
you know like i interviewed a psychic an

760
00:29:32,470 --> 00:29:30,480
amazing person who did

761
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,480
some volunteer work her name is deborah

762
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:34,880
diamond and she did volunteer work

763
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:37,200
as a death doula and also as a psychic

764
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:39,279
although she kind of left that

765
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,440
a psychic medium i should say she kind

766
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:42,880
of left that at the door

767
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:45,200
but you can only imagine that works

768
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:46,799
itself into the process of going and

769
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,679
sitting with people

770
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:50,399
as they're as they're dying so i kind of

771
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:51,760
that's how i always read that story

772
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:52,720
about the cat

773
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,240
the cat is like the the cat death doula

774
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,799
you know of being there for that person

775
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,840
in some way that we don't even

776
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:01,200
understand

777
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:04,000
well they some scientists have posited

778
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,120
the idea that

779
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,960
the person gives off a smell when

780
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:08,559
they're ex close to

781
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,240
please i don't i don't i just have to

782
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:13,679
put the skeptical

783
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,640
skeptical uh point there over but i have

784
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:17,760
a wonderful

785
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,080
doula

786
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:25,760
person that i met uh at the monroe

787
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,159
institute when i first went there

788
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,640
i wha i went to the monroe institute for

789
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:32,159
the first time

790
00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:35,679
when my parents had died i couldn't go

791
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:38,320
before i was an only child i am an only

792
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:38,880
child

793
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:41,440
and i had to take care of my parents as

794
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:42,720
they were dying

795
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:45,840
in the various different ways um

796
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:49,200
paperwork as well as providing support

797
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:51,760
of not financial but uh support

798
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:53,200
emotional support

799
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:55,360
so i got to go to the monroe institute

800
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:57,200
after that was over and there

801
00:31:01,509 --> 00:31:00,559
i met a man named brother john brother

802
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:01,519
john

803
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:04,640
was a catholic brother from the

804
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:05,840
archdiocese

805
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,519
of buffalo and he was

806
00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:12,000
a very wise person i would have to say

807
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:14,000
he exuded wisdom

808
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:17,279
and he supported me a lot in that

809
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,399
gateway uh monroe institute gateway

810
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:22,399
program the first program that people go

811
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,360
to

812
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:26,000
and i found out about his background

813
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:26,559
which was

814
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,000
totally mind-blowing he

815
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:33,200
was in uganda

816
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:36,480
during the massacre and he was

817
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:37,919
imprisoned

818
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:40,960
with a bunch of clerical people

819
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:44,320
including catholic priests

820
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:47,679
protestant ministers catholic nuns

821
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:50,240
and um protestant sort of non-people

822
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,000
they're not always called nuns but

823
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:55,200
sisters uh in in protestant

824
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:58,720
various protestant religions and

825
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:01,760
he saw so much death more people

826
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:04,720
died there than came home and when he

827
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,600
came home

828
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:08,559
to new york i guess the archbishop of

829
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,559
new york was somebody of that ilk and

830
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:12,320
i'm not a catholic and i'm not promoting

831
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:13,679
catholicism

832
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:17,120
but gave him like what he thought was a

833
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:19,679
cushier job like he didn't have to

834
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:22,159
and he he was sort of elevated to a

835
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:23,440
higher position

836
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:26,880
he ran the buffalo catholic

837
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:30,320
hospice and he saw so many people

838
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:33,200
leaving their bodies and saw like the

839
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,080
mist

840
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:36,640
that is described and helped a whole lot

841
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:37,360
of people

842
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:40,880
over the edge so he was a very very

843
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:44,880
seminal and helpful person um in my time

844
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,320
of grief or not i don't know if i would

845
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:50,080
call it grief but just trying to deal

846
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:50,559
with

847
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:53,279
my new reality of not having any parents

848
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:54,000
and

849
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:57,760
so forth so what is an interesting

850
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:01,360
death duelist story i think it is

851
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,080
and it it also kind of transitions uh it

852
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,679
transitions

853
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:07,679
i don't have a problem with that word it

854
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:09,279
transitions us

855
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,760
into this topic that i really want to

856
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:13,360
talk to you about

857
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,480
regarding religion

858
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:18,880
because you know you mentioned i'm

859
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:19,919
working on this

860
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:23,440
book why evil matters

861
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,480
and the premise of the book is really

862
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:28,080
pretty simple it's like

863
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:29,440
you know you mentioned the first book

864
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,799
why science is wrong about almost

865
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:32,480
everything and that book was like

866
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,600
hey science if you don't

867
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:37,760
get science consciousness right i mean

868
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:39,279
if you think consciousness is an

869
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,399
illusion

870
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:42,480
you really can't do science you can't do

871
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,600
anything because

872
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:45,360
consciousness is there we have to

873
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:47,200
measure it in all these experiments we

874
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,720
have to factor it in

875
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:51,120
and we can put an asterisk by our work

876
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,000
and say

877
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:54,480
i did the best i can but i wasn't taking

878
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:56,080
into account consciousness whether

879
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:57,279
that's in the form of the observer

880
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:59,360
effect or whatever you know

881
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,880
okay you get enough of that speech

882
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:02,880
you've heard it before probably

883
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,840
skeptical but the premise of why evil

884
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:07,600
matters is that

885
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:09,679
if we're going to consider this extended

886
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:11,280
realm what you and i talk about with

887
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:12,320
such ease

888
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:14,800
you know oh you have your conscious mind

889
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:16,399
at my minute and experience but then

890
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,119
there's this

891
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,119
other realm and there's spirits and

892
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,679
there's we don't even know what they are

893
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:23,440
like you're saying you know these these

894
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:25,359
tulpa kind of thought creation things

895
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:26,800
there's all these other things that seem

896
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:28,000
to be showing up

897
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,280
i'm going to put a label on that and

898
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:31,440
call that extended consciousness

899
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:34,800
well my point is we can't begin

900
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:38,079
to talk about extended consciousness

901
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:41,359
or our role in it or

902
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,119
what that would mean in terms of this

903
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,159
term we call spirituality

904
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,879
with maybe a lens into that maybe a way

905
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,000
to jump into that

906
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:52,639
is to look at evil because it seems to

907
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:54,399
me we do such a

908
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:57,760
terrible job i mean just just

909
00:35:01,349 --> 00:35:00,480
a terrible job with evil and i think

910
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,359
religion

911
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:03,839
is part of it you know because on one

912
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:06,560
hand we have science that says well evil

913
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,240
evil doesn't exist because you know

914
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:10,000
you're a biological robot in the endless

915
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:10,880
universe there could

916
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:12,640
you know what are you even talking about

917
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:13,920
but then you have this other

918
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,400
kind of subtle part of culture that

919
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:17,760
we've talked about and

920
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:20,079
you've explored and i want to talk about

921
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:21,680
that kind of says

922
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,480
hey yeah there is evil and look at my

923
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:26,160
netflix show about

924
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,720
you know this and let's look at the

925
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:30,560
memphis three and you know

926
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:33,440
johnny depp and you know satanism is

927
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:34,400
kind of cool

928
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,079
isn't it you know there's that kind of

929
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,920
part and then

930
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:40,160
the only other place we can go is to

931
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,160
brother john is that his name

932
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:45,119
the guy yes it was brother john and i

933
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:46,800
don't remember his last name

934
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:49,920
it he has very little about him

935
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:52,960
in the public forum i once found out

936
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,079
i think he has a mildly german last name

937
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:58,160
like airlift or something of that nature

938
00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:59,520
but that's not it

939
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:02,079
um and well he's probably he's probably

940
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,040
a wonderful guy

941
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,880
he's probably incredibly spiritually

942
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,560
enlightened based on what you're saying

943
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:08,960
and the experiences and all that

944
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:12,320
but jeez he's in this catholic cult

945
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:13,520
you know like one of the things i love

946
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,640
about what you said first i was

947
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,480
listening one of your interviews you go

948
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:18,480
okay and this person is this religion

949
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,000
and you're very

950
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:22,640
nice i like it new york new jersey

951
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:25,119
accent so yeah this person is

952
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:27,440
in in this religion or you can call it a

953
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:28,560
cult either one

954
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,040
interchangeable yeah it's like you just

955
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,040
said that matter of factly and i'm like

956
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:35,280
absolutely interchangeably

957
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:36,400
matter-of-factly

958
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:39,520
just because brother john is in the

959
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:40,160
catholic

960
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:43,359
cult doesn't mean that he's a bad guy

961
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:45,680
doesn't mean that he's a million times

962
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:47,359
more spiritually enlightened

963
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,079
than i am he could be but until we

964
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,880
understand the cultish elements

965
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,960
and let that plane pass jeez that's a

966
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,119
loud one

967
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:59,680
but until we until we understand the the

968
00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:00,640
cultish

969
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:03,680
aspects of of those religions

970
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:06,640
it's and tease them out you know like i

971
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:07,520
think you can be

972
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:11,359
part of the the catholic community

973
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:14,240
and not be highly influenced by the

974
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,440
cultish part of it

975
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:17,200
i think the same with christianity in

976
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:18,640
general or any religion

977
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:21,520
you can find a way through that that

978
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,160
doesn't

979
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,960
totally weigh you down into the cult but

980
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:26,880
jeez when you talk to some of those

981
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:28,000
people they do

982
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:29,920
i feel like they're not willing to own

983
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:32,320
the fact that

984
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:34,160
a lot of the ideas they have are just

985
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,440
straight out of the cult

986
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:37,520
playbook and they don't make any sense

987
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:39,280
rationally and they're not approaching

988
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:39,839
it

989
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:43,119
from a scientific or i love the way you

990
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:45,280
said i would put pre-scientific way you

991
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,920
know you said

992
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:47,599
hey i approached this like with the

993
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,960
monroe institute

994
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:50,640
and i tried to do it in a scientific way

995
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,960
i know it's not science per se

996
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,720
but try and do it in an organized

997
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:56,320
systematic logical

998
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:59,200
way that uses the your best means of

999
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:00,240
discernment

1000
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:03,440
without jumping into this well that's

1001
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:05,440
because that's what the bible says kind

1002
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:05,839
of thing

1003
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:09,119
i mean which bible i would say

1004
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:11,599
which bible are you talking about is it

1005
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:13,200
jimmy john's bible

1006
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:16,480
of plain spoken southern english

1007
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:19,760
or is it the king james version or is it

1008
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:22,800
um a scene version or

1009
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,599
did we learn to speak aramaic somewhere

1010
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:27,520
along the line and really look at the

1011
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,240
stuff

1012
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:30,480
in which case we find out that the devil

1013
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:32,079
wasn't really a big player

1014
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:35,839
in the early writings uh

1015
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:38,800
so you've got that and then of course um

1016
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:39,359
you've got

1017
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:42,079
richard smalley who you've quoted on

1018
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:43,599
your show

1019
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:46,640
with his quote uh about what

1020
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,000
what you know christian religion is and

1021
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:52,240
how does that really make sense that god

1022
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,599
is up there and sent

1023
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:56,160
his son to be tortured and you know

1024
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:57,760
threw everybody into

1025
00:39:00,950 --> 00:39:00,000
lasting damnation because a woman ate an

1026
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:00,960
apple or

1027
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:03,680
whatever i mean it's it's kind of wild

1028
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:04,160
um

1029
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:08,960
church

1030
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:10,640
um there's a couple of interesting

1031
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:12,720
things about the catholic church

1032
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:15,599
like um i think that a lot of medieval

1033
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:16,800
history

1034
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:21,359
otherwise would be gone

1035
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:25,119
however it's probably not i said tainted

1036
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:26,560
that's too negative word

1037
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:28,960
i would say it's pushed in a certain

1038
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:29,760
direction

1039
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:32,640
but at least we have some concept of

1040
00:39:37,030 --> 00:39:33,760
what went on

1041
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:37,040
during medieval times largely due to the

1042
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:39,040
record keeping of the catholic church

1043
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:40,640
so i mean i mean hold on let me let me

1044
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:43,839
just interject because you would be dead

1045
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:46,640
if at the during those times right a

1046
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:47,280
woman

1047
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:52,000
because you would immediately be

1048
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:53,599
identified as practicing

1049
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:56,880
witchcraft and you would be killed and i

1050
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:58,720
think that you know we can kind of oh ha

1051
00:40:05,990 --> 00:39:59,520
ha

1052
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:06,000
right now i'm sure well i mean

1053
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:07,839
i think i i guess that's what i'm saying

1054
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:09,119
in in terms of owner

1055
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,880
owning you know like because i'm going

1056
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:12,640
to talk to i got a i'm interviewing a

1057
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,240
guy who's a

1058
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,400
super researcher love this guy he's done

1059
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:18,079
some amazing work

1060
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,760
on crowley and on this satanism that's

1061
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,760
in our culture in such a strange way and

1062
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:25,359
people don't even realize they're

1063
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:28,480
they're entering into this this dance

1064
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:29,040
with

1065
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:31,599
i don't know what it is but i i just

1066
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:32,240
think

1067
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:34,480
there's there isn't the awareness there

1068
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:35,599
and i don't think

1069
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:38,319
christians understand their culpability

1070
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:40,720
in it and their culpability in it is

1071
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:43,760
they've created such a mess with

1072
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:46,960
their crazy ideas that there's

1073
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,520
always going to be it's easy to rile

1074
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:50,960
someone up and pushing back

1075
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:52,800
and saying yeah why would they why would

1076
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:54,079
they kill farrugia

1077
00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:55,760
and then they'll have some explanation

1078
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,839
for it or why would they be against

1079
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,680
gay marriage is a great one you know

1080
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:01,920
well why do you think you have

1081
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:04,720
why do you think your book has anything

1082
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:06,319
to say about what

1083
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,160
two adults do privately

1084
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:12,480
to express how they feel about you how

1085
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:14,480
in the world do you think

1086
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:17,119
your book has any is any opinion on that

1087
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:17,520
it's

1088
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:24,480
hole that we have a tendency to give a

1089
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,440
pass to

1090
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:27,119
and kind of say well those are your

1091
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:28,560
religious beliefs and

1092
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:30,079
i guess i ought to respect your

1093
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:31,920
religious beliefs and

1094
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:34,560
i want to push past that a little bit

1095
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:35,119
and and

1096
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,119
that's what i'm attempting to do can we

1097
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,440
talk about gay marriage for a second and

1098
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:43,520
you know i mean gay marriage won't ruin

1099
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:44,720
your marriage it's

1100
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:47,119
you know it's gay marriage it's between

1101
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,520
two same-sex people and that's just fine

1102
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,359
as far as i'm concerned i am certainly

1103
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:54,079
not against gay marriage but i think

1104
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:57,440
that the language here

1105
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:00,800
is one thing that is wrong

1106
00:42:07,109 --> 00:42:04,720
uh with all of us because some people

1107
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:07,119
uh look at the word marriage as a

1108
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:07,839
religious

1109
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:10,800
institution where other people look at

1110
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:11,040
it

1111
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:18,160
that is a great deal let me explain um

1112
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:18,720
if

1113
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:25,760
who went to the went and got a uh

1114
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:28,319
certificate if everyone had a civil

1115
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,040
union

1116
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:32,079
and left marriage to be something

1117
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:33,359
religious this would

1118
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,480
maybe would never have come up i

1119
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,240
you know i don't care if it came up i

1120
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:40,000
don't care if it came up that that to me

1121
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:41,520
takes it in the wrong direction excuse

1122
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:42,400
me for sure

1123
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:45,040
i get worked but it's like no i'll put

1124
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,079
it right in your face

1125
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,400
call it religion what is your religion

1126
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:49,839
care what is your

1127
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:52,240
what kind of religion do you have that

1128
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:55,040
you've made any sense of in your mind

1129
00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:57,760
and i'm not saying you obviously that

1130
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,800
you could somehow

1131
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,440
justify that this is something you need

1132
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:04,079
to stick your nose in

1133
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:05,760
i don't respect it i don't have to

1134
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:07,359
respect that religious belief

1135
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,599
i can challenge that religious belief in

1136
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:11,599
the court of public opinion and go

1137
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:14,880
that's rather ridiculous isn't it

1138
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:18,319
i i agree with you i agree with you but

1139
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:22,000
i don't personally deal

1140
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:25,599
in religion that's my point that's my

1141
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:26,319
point i guess

1142
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,440
i guess that's my point and one of the

1143
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,280
reasons i want to talk to you is that

1144
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:31,599
you've you've navigated that terrain

1145
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:33,839
but when we look at it i i love that

1146
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:35,359
quote you know it's like you call it a

1147
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:36,960
cult you call it religion i don't care

1148
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,560
it's

1149
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:40,720
just the semantics thing they're the

1150
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:41,920
same thing

1151
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:45,359
you can't believe you can't have

1152
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:49,440
faith that your wacky beliefs

1153
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:52,720
about gay marriage have any basis

1154
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:55,520
in some deeper spiritual truth unless

1155
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,079
you've

1156
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,880
subjected yourself to some kind of mind

1157
00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:01,119
control religious social engineering

1158
00:44:03,510 --> 00:44:01,760
project

1159
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,520
which we're all subject to i'm not

1160
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:05,200
immune from that i'm sorry

1161
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:07,680
i look back on the pictures of me way

1162
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,640
back in the day

1163
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,640
wearing bell bottoms and you know

1164
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:12,480
wearing hair or when i lived in dallas

1165
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,200
you know having

1166
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,200
some cowboy boots on like i was socially

1167
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,119
engineered i get it you know and

1168
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:19,680
i grew up in the greek orthodox church i

1169
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:21,200
get it you know and i went and kissed

1170
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:22,880
the priest's hand to get a little piece

1171
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:24,319
of bread because that's what i was told

1172
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:25,119
to do

1173
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:27,920
i get it but until christians can come

1174
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,720
clean and go wow that really is

1175
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:32,880
that really is cultish that it really is

1176
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:34,720
trying to control my beliefs

1177
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:37,520
then alex because the thing is we can

1178
00:44:41,349 --> 00:44:38,160
talk about

1179
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:41,359
catholicism because it is a an

1180
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:44,240
institution that has certain amount of

1181
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:45,680
things that are

1182
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:47,760
known about it but there are a lot of

1183
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,760
people calling themselves christians and

1184
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:51,440
frankly it baffles me

1185
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:54,319
in terms of any idea about christianity

1186
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:55,760
not only that but

1187
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:58,960
um the basis of all this people

1188
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:01,119
don't people need to be led around there

1189
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:02,160
are people who are

1190
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:05,520
followers they mentally need some

1191
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:09,200
person or persons to look up to

1192
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:12,400
and be a follower of now i think that

1193
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,480
you and i primarily we may have heroes

1194
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:19,119
but we are not anybody's followers i am

1195
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:19,599
not a

1196
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:23,599
joiner you may not be a joiner either

1197
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:26,560
um i have people that i hold in high

1198
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:27,680
regard

1199
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:30,880
but i don't follow them i think for

1200
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,280
myself or at least i try to

1201
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:35,520
and i do look at other people's ideas

1202
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:38,000
and i do adopt some ideas which seem to

1203
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:38,800
have

1204
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:42,000
um hold weight for me but i don't decide

1205
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:42,960
that they're true

1206
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:47,760
i just find them to be interesting ideas

1207
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:50,640
fair enough and and well i i kind of

1208
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,680
took that from your

1209
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:53,520
larger body of work and you know

1210
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:54,800
whenever i kind of get off on these

1211
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,480
rants and people get all upset

1212
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,240
because they're feel like their

1213
00:46:00,790 --> 00:46:00,400
religious beliefs are being trampled on

1214
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:00,800
and

1215
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:04,079
that is exactly my intent i don't think

1216
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:07,280
religious beliefs deserve any kind of

1217
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,560
special special

1218
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:13,200
uh position in the court of public

1219
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,240
opinion

1220
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:16,960
if you have a wacky idea if you believe

1221
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:18,720
in flat earth

1222
00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:20,640
then you deserve and you want to come

1223
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:22,720
out and publicly talk about that

1224
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:27,040
you deserve to be kind of

1225
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:30,560
a have those beliefs questioned

1226
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:33,599
and i i just think that in this little

1227
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,280
domain that i'm talking about now

1228
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,599
in terms of evil and i guess that was a

1229
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:39,520
long rant but let me bring it back to

1230
00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:40,960
getting your opinion if i haven't

1231
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:42,079
totally

1232
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,400
contaminated the possibility of getting

1233
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:46,480
an objective opinion

1234
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:49,760
but i'd like to explore the role that

1235
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:53,200
religion has played in obscuring

1236
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:57,200
our ability to understand

1237
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:59,359
really what's going on in this thing

1238
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:01,119
that we might call evil but i guess

1239
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:02,720
before i can even get there because that

1240
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:03,920
was my intent

1241
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,319
so the lead up to that would be you know

1242
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:08,560
how do you even feel about evil

1243
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,880
because i know a lot of people are not

1244
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:12,640
even comfortable with the term i've had

1245
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:13,200
people

1246
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,400
straight up say i don't believe in evil

1247
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,000
i don't believe

1248
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:20,960
evil exists and what i'm working on i'm

1249
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:23,040
not trying to

1250
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:25,440
offer a definition of evil which is

1251
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:26,800
where people always want to go

1252
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:29,440
well do you think you know the do you

1253
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:30,160
think the

1254
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:33,040
drone strikes were more evil than than

1255
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,520
you know

1256
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:35,760
satanic ritual abuse and it's like why

1257
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:37,599
would we want to play that game of you

1258
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:38,160
know which

1259
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:41,440
is more evil i i point to you know i did

1260
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:42,400
an interview with

1261
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:45,119
uh with a wonderful woman her name is

1262
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:46,400
annika lucas

1263
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:47,920
and i really connected with her because

1264
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:49,440
she's a yogi like me

1265
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:52,000
and she has this amazing yoga program

1266
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,960
for incarcerate

1267
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:55,440
incarcerated women in new york she's

1268
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:57,520
really turned her life around because at

1269
00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:59,040
six years old

1270
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:02,559
she was sold into a satanic ritual

1271
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:05,839
abuse cult in belgium and as

1272
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:07,839
horrifying as that is for people to

1273
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,000
imagine at six years old

1274
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:12,640
this is the belgium cult that was all

1275
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:14,720
over the news in the 90s i mean if you

1276
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:15,839
want to go see

1277
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:19,599
you know just insane pictures

1278
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,960
of they actually had pictures of the

1279
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:23,200
kids bound

1280
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:26,240
in cages that's what they were doing

1281
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:29,359
and this is the cult that annika was

1282
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:30,079
sold

1283
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:33,040
into and almost died i mean should have

1284
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,480
died other children

1285
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:36,800
died in that cult so i i guess the

1286
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:37,839
reason i bring all that

1287
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:41,760
up is sometimes you know people need to

1288
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:44,640
know it when i see it kind of aspect of

1289
00:48:47,829 --> 00:48:46,160
this so you just talk about that case

1290
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:47,839
they go okay i give up yeah there is

1291
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:48,880
evil that's

1292
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:51,520
that's evil no question so once we

1293
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,280
ground ourselves in the fact

1294
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:55,680
but again maybe you don't see that as

1295
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:57,359
evil but if there is evil

1296
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,520
and we're gonna get to evil i think

1297
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:02,000
religion's getting in the way

1298
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:05,200
well largely i would agree with you

1299
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,559
i would say the following i

1300
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:10,640
would say that there are different

1301
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,079
points of view

1302
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:15,280
as to what is evil

1303
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:18,800
in terms of i think it's evil to kill

1304
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:21,200
um elephants for instance i think that's

1305
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:22,640
horribly evil i think

1306
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:25,440
big gay punters are are like the scourge

1307
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:26,800
of the universe as

1308
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:30,000
they're very evil um

1309
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,240
but i would say that it it depends on

1310
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,040
the point of view of the person

1311
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:38,400
doing the deed so that if you

1312
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:39,920
well doesn't that contradict with what

1313
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:41,599
you just said i mean

1314
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:45,040
if i'm if uh imagine a hypothetical

1315
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:48,960
where i'm a starving or nearly starving

1316
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:51,440
you know hunter in africa and the only

1317
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,599
means i have of supporting my family and

1318
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:54,720
my community

1319
00:50:02,470 --> 00:49:58,079
is harvesting ivory off of that elephant

1320
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:02,480
and i with all my power of intention

1321
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:05,520
pray for the for the good life beyond

1322
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:07,359
this life for that elephant and i go

1323
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:08,640
down and take them down

1324
00:50:15,270 --> 00:50:12,559
and take that tusk am i doing evil

1325
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:15,280
um i think that there are other ways to

1326
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:16,400
support

1327
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:17,920
oneself no that's not that's not the

1328
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:19,760
point the point is that individual

1329
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:20,480
hunter

1330
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:24,240
are they are they perpetuating evil

1331
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,280
i cannot speak for that person i cannot

1332
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:28,800
speak for that person

1333
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:31,680
i find it to be an evil act but i can't

1334
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:33,760
really speak for that person

1335
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:38,000
um because here's what i think evil is i

1336
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:38,319
can

1337
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:40,240
make it that people keep pushing me for

1338
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:42,000
the definition since doing this book

1339
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:43,839
and and here's the here's the definition

1340
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:45,040
i kind of play around with when i'm

1341
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:47,200
really pushed to throw it out there

1342
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:50,240
if you're doing something that is

1343
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:51,760
intentionally

1344
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:54,079
soul-crushing to use a word that doesn't

1345
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:55,359
really have a meaning but we all know

1346
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:56,480
what it means

1347
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:00,160
if you're trying to intentionally impede

1348
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:03,599
someone's spiritual progress at that

1349
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:07,760
fundamental level then that's evil

1350
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:11,440
everything else is in this gray area

1351
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:15,119
this huge gray area between the absolute

1352
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,240
divine highest thing and

1353
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:21,200
that which is the lowest thing that's my

1354
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:22,559
take on it

1355
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:26,160
doesn't sound like wrong to me

1356
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:28,400
alex that doesn't sound like a wrong

1357
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:30,079
definition of it

1358
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:33,599
um and i would find it hard to define

1359
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:37,280
evil like in ten handy words but i would

1360
00:51:41,549 --> 00:51:38,240
say

1361
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:41,559
if you do something

1362
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:46,960
intentionally to hurt another being

1363
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:50,800
that you perceive as being alive then

1364
00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:54,640
that would be closer to my definition

1365
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:57,680
of evil in terms of a human point of

1366
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:01,910
then we get into the problem with

1367
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:03,920
self-defense and you know even the dalai

1368
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:05,839
lama says you know if someone's coming

1369
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:06,559
and

1370
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:08,480
well there's something else there that i

1371
00:52:13,349 --> 00:52:10,880
would bring up as a question

1372
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:13,359
rather than as a point as my point of

1373
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:14,000
view

1374
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:17,040
but more as a question i would bring up

1375
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:18,720
the idea of

1376
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,640
this poor girl uh miss lucas annika

1377
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:24,720
lucas who i couldn't listen to

1378
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:27,200
because i just couldn't bear the thought

1379
00:52:32,230 --> 00:52:30,240
of hearing about ritual sexual abuse

1380
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:32,240
i couldn't listen to it on a certain

1381
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:33,920
level uh

1382
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:37,040
but what i would say is if you

1383
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:40,160
or a person let's say a man

1384
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:43,920
of sufficient means of physically to do

1385
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:45,599
something about it

1386
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:48,880
was in a position to rescue this

1387
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:52,000
little girl and murder

1388
00:53:02,230 --> 00:52:59,349
harming her would you

1389
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:02,240
be more culpable if you didn't murder

1390
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:03,200
hurt him

1391
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,640
than if you did murder him i furthermore

1392
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:09,599
have never believed people in my youth i

1393
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:10,960
would run against people

1394
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:13,200
who would say to me you know i could

1395
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:14,559
never do anything

1396
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:17,839
bad if my sainted mother

1397
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:21,040
was being murdered by a mob of

1398
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:24,559
angry people who wanted to rape her

1399
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:28,160
i couldn't hurt them

1400
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:30,720
i don't believe them i honestly don't

1401
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:31,839
believe them

1402
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:34,079
i say put yourself actually in that

1403
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:35,440
position or don't

1404
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:38,160
but i don't believe that i don't believe

1405
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:39,920
that that is the way

1406
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:43,359
humans are wired now we can't get away

1407
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:44,880
from the point

1408
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:48,319
that as humans we are animals

1409
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:51,280
specifically we're mammals and we have

1410
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:52,640
more in common

1411
00:53:58,870 --> 00:53:56,319
with chimps and gorillas and orangutans

1412
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:58,880
then you know then we don't have in

1413
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,640
common with them we have a tremendous

1414
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:02,240
amount in common with them

1415
00:54:08,549 --> 00:54:06,480
and they do use language and so forth so

1416
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:08,559
we can't get away from that animal

1417
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:09,520
spirit

1418
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:13,200
while we're incarnate in a physical body

1419
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,160
but what happens when the chimp dies is

1420
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:18,319
the chimp going to go on to a higher

1421
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,280
consciousness

1422
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,520
this is a question this is not an answer

1423
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:22,960
what happens when e.t

1424
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:24,480
dies that's the question i always like

1425
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,000
to throw out there does et

1426
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:29,280
have a life review is e.t

1427
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:32,480
a biological entity

1428
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:36,000
is my answer yeah well i mean i think

1429
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:39,359
again i would i would cast it back

1430
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:43,760
as you so aptly did in the if we accept

1431
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:47,520
the wide variety of possible things that

1432
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:49,359
exist in the extended realm

1433
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:50,559
i think the evidence is pretty

1434
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:53,040
overwhelming that e.t is

1435
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:57,119
real on some on some physical material

1436
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:57,839
level

1437
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,799
may also be real on this

1438
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:02,559
interdimensional level

1439
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:05,520
but you know i mean first you'd have to

1440
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:06,000
come back

1441
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:08,559
and ask really the tough questions about

1442
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:10,480
our reality you know and like the

1443
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:11,680
near-death experience

1444
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,720
people and a lot of people have entered

1445
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:16,319
the extended realm what they'll tell you

1446
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:16,720
is

1447
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,000
experiencing it you're

1448
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:21,839
playing with it and you're calling it

1449
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,200
real but it's

1450
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:25,200
less than real and there's a greater

1451
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:28,720
reality but it does seem to me and i'm

1452
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:30,480
very open to hearing your interpretation

1453
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,160
of it but the

1454
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:34,400
you know i think jacques valet is kind

1455
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:35,520
of misunderstood

1456
00:55:39,430 --> 00:55:37,599
and i interviewed him on skeptico and i

1457
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,440
tried to pin him down on this but it

1458
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,960
didn't take much to pin him down he's

1459
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:42,480
open but he says yeah

1460
00:55:45,670 --> 00:55:43,680
sure you want to talk about

1461
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:45,680
consciousness extended consciousness

1462
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,440
interdimensional i'm there

1463
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:49,200
but i'm also down with the fact that

1464
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:51,119
there's a real physical presence that's

1465
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,480
interacting with people and we can't

1466
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:53,920
deny the fact that

1467
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:56,480
they're leaving behind you know this

1468
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,599
crazy evidence

1469
00:56:01,589 --> 00:56:00,000
trace evidence and it's layered in this

1470
00:56:03,109 --> 00:56:01,599
way that we have no way of creating on

1471
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:03,119
this earth and all the rest that

1472
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:06,559
all points to yeah well and then you you

1473
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:07,119
interviewed

1474
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:09,359
diana walsh posalka too and you were a

1475
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:11,119
little bit too easy on her because you

1476
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:12,640
did that girl the girl thing but that's

1477
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:13,680
all right i know

1478
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:16,319
women got to stick together i get it but

1479
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,079
she's found the same thing so you know

1480
00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:19,920
space junk in the desert kind of thing

1481
00:56:24,309 --> 00:56:21,040
so it's like

1482
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:24,319
yeah i mean et is there's some e.t

1483
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,280
that's

1484
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:27,359
biological and what is their

1485
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:30,079
relationship to consciousness and then

1486
00:56:33,190 --> 00:56:32,559
do they have a do they have a when they

1487
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:33,200
have their

1488
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:36,240
after death experience what's their life

1489
00:56:39,990 --> 00:56:38,000
review like because life review

1490
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:40,000
you know getting back to evil life

1491
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:41,119
review is

1492
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:43,680
a great window into what we're talking

1493
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:44,880
about here

1494
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:47,119
because when near-death experiences come

1495
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:49,280
back and you interviewed you interviewed

1496
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,160
right

1497
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,240
true but you you interviewed gregory

1498
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:54,400
shushan to dr gregory shusham

1499
00:56:57,910 --> 00:56:56,160
yes which is interesting because if

1500
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:57,920
people don't know you know he's done the

1501
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,359
cross-cultural

1502
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:01,520
cross-time look at near-death

1503
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:02,400
experiences

1504
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:03,920
and he doesn't come back and say gee

1505
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:06,240
they all look just like jeff long's

1506
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:07,920
he kind of says something a little

1507
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:09,760
different than that but the big picture

1508
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:11,680
is kind of the the same and the thing

1509
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:13,440
about the life review

1510
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:17,200
is that you review

1511
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,799
there isn't some other one making a

1512
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:20,880
judgment on should you have killed that

1513
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,760
elephant

1514
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:23,200
or should you have not killed that

1515
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:25,440
elephant or should you have stopped that

1516
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:26,160
guy

1517
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,799
from raping and then murdering that kid

1518
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:30,000
or not

1519
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,640
you will be the one who judges that and

1520
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:34,400
i think that changes that changes

1521
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,040
everything

1522
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:36,960
and i think there's a parallel for to

1523
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:38,720
what we need to do here

1524
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,400
we don't need to make that judgment we

1525
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:42,000
need to make that judgment as a society

1526
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:43,520
in terms of who we lock up

1527
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:47,119
but beyond that it's like your karma

1528
00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:50,240
bro well i

1529
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:53,200
still can't get away from the idea that

1530
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:54,480
we are

1531
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:59,119
incarnate as you know a biological thing

1532
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:00,720
which is an animal

1533
00:58:08,309 --> 00:58:04,640
and that we have certain instinctual

1534
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:08,319
um actions that we might take

1535
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:10,480
so there's that and i don't really have

1536
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:11,520
an answer for that

1537
00:58:15,829 --> 00:58:14,319
and in terms of diana walsh poselka i

1538
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:15,839
was very happy to get her

1539
00:58:22,309 --> 00:58:18,880
on shattered reality podcast but

1540
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,319
we had a little bit of a history because

1541
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:24,480
while i was reading her book i was in

1542
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:25,760
rome

1543
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:29,200
and i had so many things happen

1544
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:32,400
around the vatican and around her and a

1545
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:34,079
book that i brought to read

1546
00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:37,200
with me uh by accident and

1547
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:39,680
it it became like all these

1548
00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:42,720
synchronicities between the two of us

1549
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:45,599
that involved also a woman who is

1550
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:49,599
somewhat known in ufo circles named

1551
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:53,280
brenda denzler uh who i know

1552
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:56,640
only on the internet and through groups

1553
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:58,960
and stuff but i know her pretty well

1554
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:01,200
and she was involved with it and so

1555
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:03,040
there were all these

1556
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:06,160
like i was at the vatican and um

1557
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:09,200
the night after i left the vatican i

1558
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:12,400
fell on my face and uh and and i hurt

1559
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:14,319
myself really badly

1560
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:16,640
and it was like this whole everything

1561
00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:18,160
was connected it's it's

1562
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:22,000
impossible even to talk about it in

1563
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,040
10 paragraphs here but

1564
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:27,040
what you try to try though because it's

1565
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:28,640
an amazing story and then when you

1566
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:29,760
talked with

1567
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:32,960
dr uh poselka what she said was

1568
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:34,720
that you are not the only one who's had

1569
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,160
these extraordinary

1570
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:38,880
experiences connected with this one

1571
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:40,880
spirit being saint being so

1572
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:42,960
just recap for for folks for russia

1573
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:44,880
because it's it's amazing and again

1574
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:46,000
you're not catholic you're not

1575
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:47,359
christian so it's like you're not

1576
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:50,240
christian right you know i i don't i was

1577
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:52,240
i was a lutheran when i was a little

1578
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:53,839
girl okay

1579
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:58,000
um i i'm probably easier on religious

1580
01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:00,319
people than you are to an extent

1581
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:02,240
simply because i realized that there are

1582
01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:04,079
a lot of people who are not free

1583
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:04,960
thinkers

1584
01:00:08,230 --> 01:00:07,359
and need to follow someone i don't need

1585
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,240
that crutch

1586
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,799
how condescending how condescending of

1587
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:12,400
you to think that

1588
01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:14,480
i kind of agree i kind of mean it but

1589
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:16,000
tell the story tell the story about the

1590
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:16,799
saint because

1591
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:20,079
again pasulko says this is my experience

1592
01:00:23,829 --> 01:00:22,000
and i got tons of people to write in and

1593
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,839
tell me their accounts that exactly

1594
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:25,200
match yours but you're

1595
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:28,240
a public figure who's experienced it

1596
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:31,839
well i would have to say

1597
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:35,920
that it started off with michael grosso

1598
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:39,839
who i've had on a few times and it also

1599
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:41,440
involves

1600
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:43,839
people from the monroe institute who

1601
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:44,559
went

1602
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:48,079
to europe and saw nuns

1603
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:51,040
levitating uh two women who i know one

1604
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:51,520
of whom

1605
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:57,829
lived in spain the woman lived in spain

1606
01:01:01,829 --> 01:00:58,559
she was

1607
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:01,839
briefly the head of the monroe institute

1608
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:04,960
and she uh was living in spain at the

1609
01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:05,440
time

1610
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:08,079
and she went to a convent for what

1611
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:09,920
reason i've forgotten and she brought

1612
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:11,839
with her this danish woman

1613
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:14,480
who also was in the monroe institute

1614
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:15,359
somehow

1615
01:01:21,829 --> 01:01:18,480
and the two of them saw this nun

1616
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:21,839
levitating in the distance

1617
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:25,520
and the danish woman she fell flat on

1618
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:27,760
her face it was too much for her psyche

1619
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:28,720
to absorb

1620
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,240
she fainted but um the other woman

1621
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,480
um you know became some form of a

1622
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:37,200
believer not in catholicism but just

1623
01:01:40,390 --> 01:01:39,440
in the extended realm to a greater

1624
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,400
extent

1625
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:43,040
and uh michael grosso of course wrote

1626
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:43,680
his book

1627
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:47,760
about the uh the john figure saying

1628
01:01:51,589 --> 01:01:49,359
all of a sudden i'm losing the name of

1629
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:51,599
the book it says benedictine month

1630
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:54,400
monk who was observed by a bunch of

1631
01:01:59,589 --> 01:01:56,000
people in the monastery

1632
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:59,599
to on regular on a regular basis

1633
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:01,520
levitate and just kind of walk outside

1634
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,680
of the the clock tower and people

1635
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:05,760
saw this and they wrote it down and they

1636
01:02:11,109 --> 01:02:07,280
were eyewitnesses and

1637
01:02:12,069 --> 01:02:11,119
it's like yeah it's like if you deny it

1638
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:12,079
it's like i don't know

1639
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:14,240
on what basis you would deny you know

1640
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:15,119
just because

1641
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:17,920
it's like something they said they saw

1642
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:20,079
the church tried to suppress it

1643
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:23,520
basically and finally the evidence was

1644
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,520
overwhelming and so they just

1645
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:27,920
let him they gave him a pass they tried

1646
01:02:31,829 --> 01:02:29,200
to sort of keep him

1647
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:31,839
under wraps they gave it a pass and he

1648
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:34,319
eventually proceeded to sainthood

1649
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:37,520
however his female counterpart which

1650
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:40,960
was the woman mary of agrada i believe

1651
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:44,000
who came uh and who was seen by native

1652
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:44,960
americans

1653
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:48,640
having uh trans transposed herself

1654
01:02:55,029 --> 01:02:52,799
into the southwest desert and um

1655
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:55,039
became known to these native americans

1656
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:56,240
as the

1657
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:58,160
blue lady the white lady or something

1658
01:03:02,710 --> 01:02:59,760
like that she she came

1659
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:02,720
she gave teachings and it was totally

1660
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:05,200
non-physical and it was also provable

1661
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:08,079
and i believe diana was very much

1662
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:09,200
involved with

1663
01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:12,480
her and um when i went to

1664
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:15,760
italy i was not going for the re i was

1665
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:16,000
just

1666
01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:19,760
going for a vacation but it was to rome

1667
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:21,680
and i wanted to see

1668
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:24,720
uh pompeii so i took a bus ride to

1669
01:03:29,910 --> 01:03:26,960
pompeii and walked around and

1670
01:03:31,430 --> 01:03:29,920
saw those people under ash it was quite

1671
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:31,440
fascinating because i never realized

1672
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:31,920
that

1673
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:38,720
personal

1674
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:41,520
but in any case i had brought with me a

1675
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:42,400
book

1676
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:45,839
just

1677
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:47,920
grabbed something off the shelf uh that

1678
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:49,440
i hadn't read it was a

1679
01:03:56,829 --> 01:03:53,119
a crime book and it turned out to be all

1680
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:56,839
about um the religious

1681
01:04:02,069 --> 01:03:59,839
uh things that were going on from the

1682
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:02,079
point of view of mossad

1683
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:05,760
and uh very frightening stuff but it all

1684
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:08,880
fed into the diana walsh the salta story

1685
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:12,240
as well with the um

1686
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:15,359
the catholic uh

1687
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,400
the observatory the astrophysics area

1688
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:19,839
and they went in there and everything

1689
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:20,720
and i'm saying

1690
01:04:25,829 --> 01:04:23,680
holy cheese i read i got the diana walsh

1691
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:25,839
soccer book on my computer here and i'm

1692
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:26,880
reading that

1693
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:29,520
for shattered reality podcast and then i

1694
01:04:33,990 --> 01:04:31,520
brought this book for entertainment

1695
01:04:35,430 --> 01:04:34,000
not so much it's all like totally

1696
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:35,440
interwoven

1697
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:38,400
and uh and i went to the to the vatican

1698
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:38,880
and

1699
01:04:50,069 --> 01:04:46,720
was all you know cool was interesting

1700
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:50,079
and then i went to eat dinner at a

1701
01:04:56,549 --> 01:04:53,280
at a place we eat with kind of situation

1702
01:04:57,589 --> 01:04:56,559
and i fell down and i busted my lip wide

1703
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:57,599
open and

1704
01:05:01,109 --> 01:04:59,680
it was really revolting and i had to go

1705
01:05:03,589 --> 01:05:01,119
to uh to the

1706
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:03,599
emergency room and i was really laid up

1707
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:04,720
pretty bad

1708
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:08,880
and um and so on my way back after

1709
01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:12,240
all these adventures in italy um i was

1710
01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:13,039
sitting

1711
01:05:20,710 --> 01:05:16,480
on the airplane trying to meditate

1712
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:20,720
and i saw this woman sitting

1713
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:23,760
like where there are no seats it's it's

1714
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:25,039
not the bulkhead it's

1715
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:27,839
where there's it's not the wing it might

1716
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:28,319
there's

1717
01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:30,640
something that's there and it skips a

1718
01:05:33,750 --> 01:05:31,440
couple of

1719
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:33,760
skips maybe two rows of seats towards

1720
01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:35,520
the back of the airplane

1721
01:05:41,190 --> 01:05:38,720
and um i would meditate no i had it sort

1722
01:05:44,710 --> 01:05:41,200
of like semi-open-eyed meditation

1723
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,720
and i kept feeling this woman being

1724
01:05:48,150 --> 01:05:46,000
there

1725
01:05:50,309 --> 01:05:48,160
and every time i really looked it was

1726
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:50,319
she wasn't there but she was there

1727
01:05:55,430 --> 01:05:53,119
and unmistakably it wasn't just

1728
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:55,440
something that i was imagining and

1729
01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:58,480
like really just fever dreams because i

1730
01:06:03,109 --> 01:05:59,599
was fully awake

1731
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:03,119
though i was in i guess alpha state

1732
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:06,640
uh of brain waves and i just got the

1733
01:06:10,230 --> 01:06:07,760
feeling it was

1734
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:10,240
good old brenda denzler who wrote once

1735
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:12,400
wrote a book about ufos

1736
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:15,760
and um who i didn't know at the time

1737
01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:18,799
had given diana walsh posalka

1738
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:21,039
a whole bunch of her library and her

1739
01:06:24,309 --> 01:06:21,920
research

1740
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:24,319
i had no idea the two knew each other at

1741
01:06:27,349 --> 01:06:24,960
all at

1742
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:27,359
all and i just thought oh my gosh what's

1743
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:29,200
brenda doing here and

1744
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:32,079
why and and then when i spoke with diana

1745
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:33,520
she said she was sure it was

1746
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,400
a saint mary of agra which i think who i

1747
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:38,160
think is actually not a saint but mary

1748
01:06:42,230 --> 01:06:39,280
of agridope

1749
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:42,240
um and i said okay i thought it was

1750
01:06:45,750 --> 01:06:43,839
brenda dexler and then she comes out

1751
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:45,760
with well yeah i know brendan slipped

1752
01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:50,549
and i'm sure i'm missing parts of the

1753
01:06:55,589 --> 01:06:53,200
story but it was just

1754
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:55,599
it was mind-bending yeah that's

1755
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,480
fascinating

1756
01:06:59,589 --> 01:06:58,240
and i think you know the other part of

1757
01:07:02,870 --> 01:06:59,599
that is that

1758
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:02,880
so then diana proceeds to tell you

1759
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:05,680
that she's had many people report

1760
01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:07,039
encounters with

1761
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:09,280
her book american cosmic which is a

1762
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:10,400
fantastic

1763
01:07:13,990 --> 01:07:13,440
book if anyone hasn't read it it's like

1764
01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:14,000
a very

1765
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:17,440
important book to read and it's

1766
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:19,920
fantastically entertaining but it's just

1767
01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:21,680
important in terms of this

1768
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:24,799
invisible college thing in terms of

1769
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:28,000
the kind of way secrets are are

1770
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:31,200
held around this topic of uh ufos

1771
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:33,920
and then you know even touching on the

1772
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:36,000
the spiritual part of it too right but

1773
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:37,760
but she's had a number of people come

1774
01:07:42,069 --> 01:07:39,280
forward and say they've had a connection

1775
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:42,079
with this saint through her

1776
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:43,839
through her body she converted to

1777
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:45,359
catholicism as

1778
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:47,920
you know she was always a spiritual

1779
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:49,920
child and she actually converted to

1780
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,119
catholicism

1781
01:07:55,109 --> 01:07:53,520
but what i find interesting you know as

1782
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:55,119
i said the history

1783
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:57,039
the things that are interesting about

1784
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:59,280
catholicism from my point of view

1785
01:08:02,470 --> 01:08:00,720
is that also they're extremely

1786
01:08:04,710 --> 01:08:02,480
interested in ufos

1787
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:04,720
and you've got to ask yourself why and

1788
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:06,880
they do maintain these observatories

1789
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:08,079
around the world

1790
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:11,680
so there's some what's to me

1791
01:08:14,950 --> 01:08:13,200
i don't get that when you say that

1792
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:14,960
what's the answer that question

1793
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:17,679
because it would have to be a complete

1794
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:18,480
ultimate

1795
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:21,199
conspiracy that is that is that is not

1796
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:21,520
at

1797
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:24,960
be interested

1798
01:08:32,709 --> 01:08:29,040
in ufos they claim to have a direct line

1799
01:08:35,030 --> 01:08:32,719
to god and the son of the one and only

1800
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:35,040
son of the only begotten son of god

1801
01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:37,199
that is their position and they they

1802
01:08:42,149 --> 01:08:39,520
kind of do this little dance of like oh

1803
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:42,159
you know set out they're like the cia

1804
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:43,600
you know or like our government here you

1805
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:45,199
know they put out these kind of cryptid

1806
01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:47,920
well i don't know what would you think

1807
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:48,719
about that

1808
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:50,960
they're not up front about about what

1809
01:08:53,829 --> 01:08:52,480
they think or what they believe and they

1810
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:53,839
certainly don't let people

1811
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:57,199
in to see any of their secret documents

1812
01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:58,799
didn't let me in to see their secret

1813
01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:01,520
documents but

1814
01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:03,359
i didn't ask on the other hand but be

1815
01:09:08,709 --> 01:09:04,880
that as it may i

1816
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:08,719
think that what we're talking about here

1817
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:12,080
is a smaller version of what people

1818
01:09:15,749 --> 01:09:13,839
talk about when they talk about the

1819
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:15,759
united states government

1820
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:19,600
it ain't just one thing so

1821
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:22,799
you know but from a spiritual standpoint

1822
01:09:27,669 --> 01:09:24,480
is that what we want

1823
01:09:29,349 --> 01:09:27,679
i don't understand why i don't

1824
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:29,359
understand that i mean

1825
01:09:33,669 --> 01:09:31,759
i'm interested in spirituality but my

1826
01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:33,679
understanding of spirituality

1827
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:37,279
is nudging towards this ultimate truth

1828
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:39,279
you know to put it in kind of new ageish

1829
01:09:44,630 --> 01:09:41,839
terms to get closer to the light

1830
01:09:47,189 --> 01:09:44,640
that all loving all-encompassing light

1831
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:47,199
that near-death experiences researchers

1832
01:09:50,309 --> 01:09:49,920
talk about and experiencers talk about

1833
01:09:53,189 --> 01:09:50,319
and

1834
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:53,199
to me it seems pretty straightforward

1835
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:53,759
you know i

1836
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:55,760
i there's a moral imperative there seems

1837
01:09:59,110 --> 01:09:57,280
to be a right and wrong

1838
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:59,120
we have discernment i do seem to have

1839
01:10:03,189 --> 01:10:00,800
discernment i do seem to know

1840
01:10:04,550 --> 01:10:03,199
what's right and what's wrong and i can

1841
01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:04,560
make that choice

1842
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:08,320
it's so freaking simple why do i need

1843
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:11,760
a religion to connect with any of that

1844
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:13,440
and then it is incredibly condescending

1845
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:15,920
to say well you don't need it alex but

1846
01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:17,520
there's some stupid

1847
01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:19,520
you know follower people out there that

1848
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:21,040
need it i don't buy that

1849
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:23,520
i think i think people are i think we're

1850
01:10:28,709 --> 01:10:25,360
pretty smart

1851
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:28,719
could could be better served

1852
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:31,199
than how they are served by many

1853
01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:32,159
religions

1854
01:10:36,390 --> 01:10:35,280
um beyond catholicism and other

1855
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:36,400
religions i think

1856
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:40,000
even those folks could be better served

1857
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:43,440
but i do think that some people

1858
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:46,719
don't question uh consciousness like

1859
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:49,920
you do or like i do and for those

1860
01:10:55,390 --> 01:10:53,040
people they need a place

1861
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:55,400
in their life to put that they

1862
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:57,760
compartmentalize

1863
01:11:01,590 --> 01:11:00,719
and you know am i saying people are

1864
01:11:04,709 --> 01:11:01,600
stupid

1865
01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:04,719
not so much as as i'm saying that people

1866
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:07,760
choose in their life to focus on

1867
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:09,199
different areas

1868
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:12,000
now um you know there's a guy out there

1869
01:11:16,229 --> 01:11:13,920
who focuses on football i have

1870
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:16,239
absolutely no interest in sports

1871
01:11:20,229 --> 01:11:18,800
it just is totally uninteresting to me

1872
01:11:22,390 --> 01:11:20,239
as a human being

1873
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:22,400
but there's that guy who focuses on

1874
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:24,880
football he thinks about god

1875
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:28,000
he kisses his christian medal to win

1876
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:31,120
the um the uh uh

1877
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:34,400
to get the pass or to make the touchdown

1878
01:11:39,510 --> 01:11:36,719
or whatever the heck it is i don't know

1879
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:39,520
and and to me and you that may seem

1880
01:11:42,350 --> 01:11:40,480
ridiculous

1881
01:11:43,669 --> 01:11:42,360
but this is the way he has

1882
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:43,679
compartmentalized

1883
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:46,560
the spiritual aspect of his life now

1884
01:11:51,910 --> 01:11:48,400
could that man be better served

1885
01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:51,920
absolutely he's not being well served by

1886
01:11:58,470 --> 01:11:55,440
by religions in general which

1887
01:11:59,590 --> 01:11:58,480
require a following which require more

1888
01:12:01,910 --> 01:11:59,600
times than not

1889
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:01,920
that you follow some man wearing a dress

1890
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:02,880
and believe that

1891
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:04,960
whatever he says is what you ought to

1892
01:12:09,990 --> 01:12:07,679
follow i can't do that you can't do that

1893
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:10,000
but i think that's because perhaps

1894
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:12,560
your area of interest and my area of

1895
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:13,360
interest

1896
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,320
are far different from his but could he

1897
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:18,080
be better served by

1898
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:22,880
a spiritual advisor absolutely

1899
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:26,960
does that make any sense yeah no i if we

1900
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:30,400
we've maybe pulled that as far as we can

1901
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:33,600
you know we ought to move towards

1902
01:12:37,510 --> 01:12:35,920
kind of concluding this we've been at it

1903
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:37,520
for an hour and a half it's been

1904
01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:39,920
just a terrific child i love wow i

1905
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:42,480
didn't realize it was that long

1906
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:45,040
it's it's good time flies when you're

1907
01:12:48,790 --> 01:12:45,600
having

1908
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:48,800
fun as they absolutely absolutely

1909
01:12:51,910 --> 01:12:51,280
so do we have do you have any other

1910
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:51,920
thoughts

1911
01:12:58,149 --> 01:12:55,040
on what i should be

1912
01:13:02,229 --> 01:12:58,159
considering in terms of why

1913
01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:02,239
evil matters why it's we we kind of

1914
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:05,920
really took different points of view

1915
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:09,120
like on the ivory hunter that's exactly

1916
01:13:14,070 --> 01:13:10,640
what i don't want to

1917
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:14,080
get into to me that is that is far from

1918
01:13:17,430 --> 01:13:15,120
the spiritual

1919
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:17,440
you know yeah i don't i don't need to

1920
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:19,360
get further into that

1921
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:27,510
it's it's it's so hard because as people

1922
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:28,800
have said

1923
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:32,080
on your show you can't study something

1924
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:35,760
with the something that you are studying

1925
01:13:38,790 --> 01:13:38,159
and i think that's really the biggest

1926
01:13:42,550 --> 01:13:38,800
problem

1927
01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:42,560
in in what we're talking about

1928
01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:46,080
um if i were to write a book about

1929
01:13:56,070 --> 01:13:50,880
evil i probably

1930
01:14:03,750 --> 01:14:00,070
a perspective of of not human uh

1931
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:03,760
like what is human and are humans on the

1932
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:06,080
top of this scale because i don't look

1933
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:08,800
at humans as the crown of creation

1934
01:14:15,990 --> 01:14:12,000
and um i would kind of look at

1935
01:14:19,270 --> 01:14:16,000
where what is the human part of it

1936
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:19,280
versus the way other creatures

1937
01:14:26,070 --> 01:14:22,800
both incarnate and discarnate might see

1938
01:14:28,709 --> 01:14:26,080
the concept and

1939
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:28,719
that's where i would stand that's an

1940
01:14:32,709 --> 01:14:30,480
awesome perspective and it's

1941
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:32,719
one that that i hadn't fully considered

1942
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:34,320
and i love the way you put it up before

1943
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:36,000
you know because i kind of jumped on the

1944
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:37,600
animal thing but she also said

1945
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:39,840
what about the trees thing you know have

1946
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:40,880
you heard about that guy

1947
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:44,159
as a german researcher who did the

1948
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:44,800
research

1949
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:46,080
you should have him on your show you

1950
01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:47,920
guys would have a great time

1951
01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:51,040
but he took it purely from a scientific

1952
01:14:54,470 --> 01:14:53,120
biological standpoint did you know this

1953
01:14:55,510 --> 01:14:54,480
this work i'm talking about and he said

1954
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:55,520
the connection

1955
01:14:59,270 --> 01:14:57,840
and the communication of these trees you

1956
01:15:01,510 --> 01:14:59,280
know

1957
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:01,520
i got the same thing from a woman i'm i

1958
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:02,800
don't know the german guy

1959
01:15:06,870 --> 01:15:05,199
but i'd love to have his name but i was

1960
01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:06,880
going to bring up a woman whose name of

1961
01:15:10,630 --> 01:15:08,320
course i i can't find

1962
01:15:12,550 --> 01:15:10,640
right at the moment maybe it's here

1963
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:12,560
somewhere in my notes

1964
01:15:16,550 --> 01:15:14,960
i mean these trees are actually he found

1965
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:16,560
these trees are actually like battling

1966
01:15:20,550 --> 01:15:17,840
each other you know like

1967
01:15:22,070 --> 01:15:20,560
this grove of trees is trying to keep

1968
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:22,080
out the other trees or that

1969
01:15:25,990 --> 01:15:24,480
trees aren't as happy you know this

1970
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:26,000
anthropomorphizing a little bit but he

1971
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:27,520
has the data to back it up

1972
01:15:30,709 --> 01:15:28,960
these kind of trees don't like being

1973
01:15:31,750 --> 01:15:30,719
alone you know don't just go plant them

1974
01:15:34,550 --> 01:15:31,760
alone in a

1975
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:34,560
under a tree lamppost they don't like

1976
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:34,880
that

1977
01:15:43,270 --> 01:15:39,360
approaching it from a scientific

1978
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:43,280
basis and it has the data to support

1979
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,560
what he's saying i i had a woman

1980
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:48,400
whose name i don't have in front of me

1981
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:49,679
right at the moment

1982
01:15:53,430 --> 01:15:52,080
but she may be canadian i think she is

1983
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:53,440
canadian and she

1984
01:15:57,750 --> 01:15:56,400
talks about the same things and just as

1985
01:16:00,310 --> 01:15:57,760
a final note

1986
01:16:02,229 --> 01:16:00,320
i am sitting here and i have a cat

1987
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:02,239
looking out the window

1988
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:06,000
uh of of my my place here

1989
01:16:09,590 --> 01:16:08,400
cat is looking out the window and he's

1990
01:16:12,950 --> 01:16:09,600
looking at

1991
01:16:14,310 --> 01:16:12,960
three squirrels who come up on the chair

1992
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:14,320
next to the window

1993
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:17,520
to look at him make faces at him and

1994
01:16:21,669 --> 01:16:18,560
taunt him

1995
01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:21,679
now he is a big mean

1996
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:24,080
black cat i mean he's he can be mean

1997
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:25,679
he's not always me but he's

1998
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:28,480
he wants to eat them up and they know it

1999
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:29,120
and they're

2000
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:32,719
just going now you can't get us

2001
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,000
and they are absolutely communicating

2002
01:16:39,910 --> 01:16:38,239
you just know that they are absolutely

2003
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:39,920
communicating right now

2004
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:42,080
one of them is sitting right on the

2005
01:16:46,790 --> 01:16:43,679
chair looking in the window

2006
01:16:49,669 --> 01:16:46,800
and sticking his tongue out at the cat

2007
01:16:50,950 --> 01:16:49,679
so you know i have a cat sitting over uh

2008
01:16:52,870 --> 01:16:50,960
six feet over to me

2009
01:16:54,470 --> 01:16:52,880
on the left and just a quick cat story

2010
01:16:56,229 --> 01:16:54,480
because uh

2011
01:16:57,510 --> 01:16:56,239
so we have a we've had a lot of foster

2012
01:16:59,510 --> 01:16:57,520
dogs in our house

2013
01:17:01,270 --> 01:16:59,520
i mean really my wife has driven that

2014
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:01,280
process but we've had 50 or 60

2015
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:04,400
foster dogs over the years but recently

2016
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:06,000
margot has decided enough

2017
01:17:10,390 --> 01:17:08,800
on the dogs you know but she has always

2018
01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:10,400
had this ability

2019
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:14,320
to kind of tell which are the good dogs

2020
01:17:17,270 --> 01:17:16,239
and which are the bad dogs you know so

2021
01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:17,280
if we're gonna have it you know these

2022
01:17:21,510 --> 01:17:19,600
foster dogs they're

2023
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:21,520
they're kind of some rough characters

2024
01:17:25,030 --> 01:17:22,640
sometimes you know

2025
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:25,040
street dogs and stuff like that and she

2026
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:27,120
just at the beginning will be like

2027
01:17:31,030 --> 01:17:29,520
attacking one and that dog will turn out

2028
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:31,040
to be kind of a dangerous dog

2029
01:17:34,310 --> 01:17:32,640
bite other people that come in the house

2030
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:34,320
or you know snap at them and stuff like

2031
01:17:36,149 --> 01:17:34,800
that

2032
01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:36,159
and other dogs you know like we had this

2033
01:17:40,550 --> 01:17:38,560
huge mastiff you know 180 pounds

2034
01:17:43,030 --> 01:17:40,560
and she's like all right he's okay you

2035
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:43,040
know if have that kind of ability you

2036
01:17:47,830 --> 01:17:44,880
know people do

2037
01:17:48,950 --> 01:17:47,840
people do i feel like uh having a lot of

2038
01:17:51,110 --> 01:17:48,960
kinship here

2039
01:17:52,470 --> 01:17:51,120
with your wife because i can walk down a

2040
01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:52,480
strange street

2041
01:17:58,470 --> 01:17:55,920
and stop and go and

2042
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:58,480
ten cats will come out from and they'll

2043
01:18:02,470 --> 01:18:00,000
all come up to me

2044
01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:02,480
because they know they just know that

2045
01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:03,360
you love them

2046
01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:06,480
and you want the best for them so i'm

2047
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:08,400
i'm all for cats and dogs and

2048
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:11,040
other creatures though i've never really

2049
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:12,400
been able to

2050
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:15,600
get too intimate with insects i do love

2051
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:21,350
awesome well first it's been awesome

2052
01:18:25,910 --> 01:18:22,640
connecting again

2053
01:18:27,189 --> 01:18:25,920
and talking and uh what a great

2054
01:18:29,669 --> 01:18:27,199
opportunity

2055
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:29,679
you you it's been great speaking to you

2056
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:30,400
and sometimes

2057
01:18:34,070 --> 01:18:32,080
you'll have to tell me about the main

2058
01:18:37,510 --> 01:18:34,080
painting behind you

2059
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:37,520
the one in the middle yes you know i i

2060
01:18:39,990 --> 01:18:38,159
just

2061
01:18:41,189 --> 01:18:40,000
you know somebody asked me about it uh

2062
01:18:42,390 --> 01:18:41,199
uh jeffrey martin

2063
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:42,400
asked me about it i don't know if it

2064
01:18:45,270 --> 01:18:43,600
made it in the show so it might be

2065
01:18:47,189 --> 01:18:45,280
boring to people but

2066
01:18:48,870 --> 01:18:47,199
my wife and i were down in mexico we

2067
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:48,880
live in san diego so mexico is really

2068
01:18:52,149 --> 01:18:49,440
close

2069
01:18:54,390 --> 01:18:52,159
and we're down there years ago and you

2070
01:18:55,750 --> 01:18:54,400
know she's kind of

2071
01:18:57,110 --> 01:18:55,760
walking me through the streets you know

2072
01:18:58,229 --> 01:18:57,120
doing the shopping thing and i'm just

2073
01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:58,239
like dragging along

2074
01:19:01,510 --> 01:18:59,760
and this guy comes out and he comes up

2075
01:19:03,189 --> 01:19:01,520
to me he goes hey

2076
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:03,199
come here come here i want to show you

2077
01:19:06,709 --> 01:19:04,719
something and he takes me

2078
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:06,719
all the way in the back of his shop i

2079
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:07,920
mean

2080
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:09,199
you know you don't know if this stuff is

2081
01:19:14,470 --> 01:19:11,760
staged or not but it was fantastic

2082
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:14,480
he goes you're looking for art i want to

2083
01:19:19,430 --> 01:19:15,760
show you something

2084
01:19:21,510 --> 01:19:19,440
and he shows me this and a couple other

2085
01:19:25,110 --> 01:19:21,520
carvings that this guy has done

2086
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:25,120
and he goes this guy is a a

2087
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:28,320
native guy who is way way out

2088
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:31,920
in the in the bush and he does these

2089
01:19:35,350 --> 01:19:33,360
incredible carvings

2090
01:19:36,870 --> 01:19:35,360
and i go down there and get a few of

2091
01:19:39,990 --> 01:19:36,880
them every now and then

2092
01:19:41,030 --> 01:19:40,000
and it's just amazing stuff and it is i

2093
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:41,040
mean this is uh

2094
01:19:45,030 --> 01:19:43,679
there's like if you can see it there's

2095
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:45,040
this human being that's

2096
01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:47,440
coming up out of the mud you know and

2097
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:49,199
there's like these snakes in front of

2098
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:50,560
him and stuff like that

2099
01:19:57,990 --> 01:19:54,560
and then the gnosis the the

2100
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:58,000
the the wisdom is being blown into his

2101
01:20:01,830 --> 01:20:00,480
head like a cloud and then it's spinning

2102
01:20:03,350 --> 01:20:01,840
into this

2103
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:03,360
star and i mean some people see some

2104
01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:05,520
very occult things in there

2105
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:07,280
but i just thought it was cool you know

2106
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:08,960
i just thought it was a cool painting

2107
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:12,239
or car a shaman i'd say

2108
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:15,280
yes i i never met the guy the actual

2109
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:16,159
artist but